Dot optics have passed out of the fad stage and have proven that they’re here to stay. Sage Dynamics has a publicly available white paper about the objective advantages of dot optics on handguns. Target acquisition is faster and dots allow for target focus and a wider field of view compared to having to focus on the front sight.
I graduated high school in 1987…I know of what I speak. That fad continueed well into the early 90s
top secret
I’m happy I could remind you of something. Unlike a logo on a shirt, dot optics have objectively measurable benefits. I’d recommend reading the Sage Dynamics paper if you haven’t.
Gimme a break. Making an issue where there is none.
All my handguns (**all of them**) have iron sights. Last time I was challenged to a showdown by a red-dot user to hit steel for points, I won with my plain ‘ol iron sighted EDC micro gat over his full size 1911 Govt. And guess how much that showdown did for world peace or during cancer? Nothing. Nobody cares.
Geoff "Steak, it could have been for dinner" PR" PR
“And guess how much that showdown did for world peace or during cancer? Nothing. Nobody cares.”
Yeah, but…
It could have gotten you a tasty steak cooked over a wood fire smothered in mushrooms and onions, and the requisite bragging rights that go with it, had you bet him…
bleeck peeper freesh groond no skimpy and a gooot drusting of slap yo’ mama.
SAFEupstateFML
Wait there is drama involved over firearms accessories? What’s next bitching about caliber . If they work awesome get it if it’s worth it if not enjoy what does. With that said always value in comparison of models/features/durability/price but that tends to require objective thinking.
Based upon my own personal experience and the training I’ve had and that I know is taught in many classes around the country, I’m going to tell you the best thing you can do for engaging immediate close range (15 yards and under) threats that are suddenly present – forget training to use the iron or dot sight to engage those types of sudden;y present threat targets. There is a more than 97% chance you will not even see your iron or dot sights under the stress response of sudden immediate defensive gun use against a suddenly present threat, and if that’s all you train for that eye-blink moment in time you have may be wasted on trying to see them. Instead, train for ‘instinctive shooting’ engagement (AKA as ‘subconscious tactical shooting’) (in ‘instinctive shooting’ you do not aim via sights.).
I see too many people on the range going through these drills using their sights, they think that’s going to be what they do when it happens – do some cool move and some smooth presentation to thrust their arms out and bring the sights up to align the irons or dot on target quickly and they think they got it covered. I can tell you from personal experience, for engaging immediate close range threats that are suddenly present you are not going to be ‘smooth’ or ‘cool looking’, and that ‘drill’ although it may give ya some ‘guiding’ in motion somewhere in your mind if you are expecting to actually see your sights its pretty likely not going to happen.
“There is a more than 97% chance you will not even see your iron or dot sights under the stress response of sudden immediate defensive gun use against a suddenly present threat,…”
Without my glasses, red dots are a giant blurry asterisk. Loss of my glasses proceeding the need to use my CCW (e.g., someone attacks me) is reasonably high.
here’s the thing about a blurry red dot like that on a pistol – put the center of that blur on target and you’ll most likely still hit the target (within a reasonable range). Plus at closer range of the majority of defense the red dot enclosure is one big ‘ghost ring’ kinda sight so framing the bad guy in it will likely score a hit on the bad guy and ya don’t need the dot its self. I practice the ‘ghost ring’ thing (turn the dot off), I do targets out to about 40 yards just fine with landing rounds on target, might not be head shots at the longer distance but rounds on target it is, and at 20 yards and under head’ish shots start getting easier after some practice with the ‘ghost ring’ technique. But I also do a lot of practice with instinctive shooting too (I cover the optic lens facing me) for sudden threats at close range, so that kinda carries over some to the ghost ring technique for me.
So anyway, with the ghost ring technique even a dead red dot can be used to put rounds on target.
not hard to figure out point of impact even without any sights. aside from the mkll gov’t bull barrel and the glowies on the 938 all my factory sights suck. still can’t miss. friend has p10 w/ dot and it is really nice. which is why i think about csx e… checks boxes.
As long as you can co-witness through the red-dot if the battery craps out, good on ya.
The only problem, as I see it, is that quality red-dot sights with tens of thousands of hours of runtime often cost as much as a stock Glock or Sig.
I fully realize nothing is gonna help if the gun sits for 20 years or more being used, but that’s just me…
Youngsters and their silly fads….
Dot optics have passed out of the fad stage and have proven that they’re here to stay. Sage Dynamics has a publicly available white paper about the objective advantages of dot optics on handguns. Target acquisition is faster and dots allow for target focus and a wider field of view compared to having to focus on the front sight.
You remind me of the kids in the 80s…trying to justify why they needed the shirts with the little alligators on them….lol.
“You remind me of the kids in the 80s…trying to justify why they needed the shirts with the little alligators on them…”
80s? *Snort*.
Izod shirts (with the alligators) were from the 70’s, kid…
I graduated high school in 1987…I know of what I speak. That fad continueed well into the early 90s
I’m happy I could remind you of something. Unlike a logo on a shirt, dot optics have objectively measurable benefits. I’d recommend reading the Sage Dynamics paper if you haven’t.
I never hear anyone mention what seems to be great selling points: 1. Dots are the ultimate night sight, 2. They’re the ultimate adjustable sight.
Gimme a break. Making an issue where there is none.
All my handguns (**all of them**) have iron sights. Last time I was challenged to a showdown by a red-dot user to hit steel for points, I won with my plain ‘ol iron sighted EDC micro gat over his full size 1911 Govt. And guess how much that showdown did for world peace or during cancer? Nothing. Nobody cares.
Use your iron sights, or use your red dot. TEHO.
**curing cancer**
oops, lol. Sure would be nice if the edit function worked on this site.
“Sure would be nice if the edit function worked on this site.”
Tell me about it, I could have corrected my double ‘PR’ in my .sig below.
*Sheesh*
“And guess how much that showdown did for world peace or during cancer? Nothing. Nobody cares.”
Yeah, but…
It could have gotten you a tasty steak cooked over a wood fire smothered in mushrooms and onions, and the requisite bragging rights that go with it, had you bet him…
Why would you ruin a perfectly good steak with mushrooms and onions?
Why would you disrespect a good steak by withholding a good smothering of mushrooms and onions?
(and butter…)
bleeck peeper freesh groond no skimpy and a gooot drusting of slap yo’ mama.
Wait there is drama involved over firearms accessories? What’s next bitching about caliber
. If they work awesome get it if it’s worth it if not enjoy what does. With that said always value in comparison of models/features/durability/price but that tends to require objective thinking.
Based upon my own personal experience and the training I’ve had and that I know is taught in many classes around the country, I’m going to tell you the best thing you can do for engaging immediate close range (15 yards and under) threats that are suddenly present – forget training to use the iron or dot sight to engage those types of sudden;y present threat targets. There is a more than 97% chance you will not even see your iron or dot sights under the stress response of sudden immediate defensive gun use against a suddenly present threat, and if that’s all you train for that eye-blink moment in time you have may be wasted on trying to see them. Instead, train for ‘instinctive shooting’ engagement (AKA as ‘subconscious tactical shooting’) (in ‘instinctive shooting’ you do not aim via sights.).
I see too many people on the range going through these drills using their sights, they think that’s going to be what they do when it happens – do some cool move and some smooth presentation to thrust their arms out and bring the sights up to align the irons or dot on target quickly and they think they got it covered. I can tell you from personal experience, for engaging immediate close range threats that are suddenly present you are not going to be ‘smooth’ or ‘cool looking’, and that ‘drill’ although it may give ya some ‘guiding’ in motion somewhere in your mind if you are expecting to actually see your sights its pretty likely not going to happen.
“There is a more than 97% chance you will not even see your iron or dot sights under the stress response of sudden immediate defensive gun use against a suddenly present threat,…”
Hear, hear…I’ve been saying this for years now.
My irons won’t ever fog up or become blurry. Dots help with longer shots.
Without my glasses, red dots are a giant blurry asterisk. Loss of my glasses proceeding the need to use my CCW (e.g., someone attacks me) is reasonably high.
here’s the thing about a blurry red dot like that on a pistol – put the center of that blur on target and you’ll most likely still hit the target (within a reasonable range). Plus at closer range of the majority of defense the red dot enclosure is one big ‘ghost ring’ kinda sight so framing the bad guy in it will likely score a hit on the bad guy and ya don’t need the dot its self. I practice the ‘ghost ring’ thing (turn the dot off), I do targets out to about 40 yards just fine with landing rounds on target, might not be head shots at the longer distance but rounds on target it is, and at 20 yards and under head’ish shots start getting easier after some practice with the ‘ghost ring’ technique. But I also do a lot of practice with instinctive shooting too (I cover the optic lens facing me) for sudden threats at close range, so that kinda carries over some to the ghost ring technique for me.
So anyway, with the ghost ring technique even a dead red dot can be used to put rounds on target.
not hard to figure out point of impact even without any sights. aside from the mkll gov’t bull barrel and the glowies on the 938 all my factory sights suck. still can’t miss. friend has p10 w/ dot and it is really nice. which is why i think about csx e… checks boxes.